Running D&D5 for Youngsters

I did not control the outcomes. What we rolled, we rolled.

By “railroad” I meant the less illusionist/controlling version of it. The adventure basically has one path that leads from you going from 1st level to 4th level local heroes who fight a dragon and save a village (or die trying). The path has a couple of branches along the way, where you get to chose which quests you do in what order (and you can even not do a few of them) – but in the end the overall arc of the game is pretty set.

So it’s not a hard-driving railroad, it’s just a linear adventure format. I sometimes casually call that a railroad to compare it with things like Apocalypse World or Stars Without Number where there is no assumed adventure path.

1 Appreciation

I don’t see the difference. What happens when the players go off the path?

In this kind of game, when the group is communicating functionally, they generally don’t. You don’t show up to the village, see the dragon attack, refuse to help and then fuck off to Waterdeep. You stay and deal with the situation that’s the clear “road to adventure” presented by the GM.

In this particular game I was OOC clear about that with the players. I was like “we’re playing an adventure from the boxed set. You can chose what you do in the adventure, but you should deal with the situation to hand.”

Where as in a game of Stars Without Number that I ran a few years back, the PCs showed up at a colonial outpost to find the locals being attacked by aliens. They said “fuck this” got in their ship and flew away. I just rolled up a new planet for the next place they touched down, and they liked the opportunities there so they hung around for a bit. There were some effects to the star system from the PCs fucking off and leaving the colony with the aliens (handled in the Faction move part of GM prep), but no direct blowback and no expectation from me or them that they needed to deal with the situation in any given way – or at all.

Or, in a game of Urban Shadows that I run, I tend to turn to the player and be like “What is your character doing now that they really care about? What’s going wrong with that?” And then we play scenes based around that thing. They can give up and go on to other things if they want – all up to them, it’s their goal! Of course, once they start in on it and things get complicated from partial successes, debts, and enmities they might not be able to walk away clean. But there is no dragon that threatens the whole village, there is no path to adventure, and there is no need to do any particular set of quests.

In my younger days I didn’t differentiate between all these (and more) different approaches well. Which led to the bad illusionist railroad where I would tell players they could do whatever they wanted, then when they wanted to something other than what was planned or what I’d prepped for, I’d use stupid tricks to make them do it anyway.

2 Appreciations

Could you give an example of how these “linear paths” are prepared and how they turn from preparation and enter the situation in play?

Sure. In this game it’s easy. There’s a flow chart that shows how everything fits together.

Basically, the PCs arrive in town. They see a dragon attack and help rescue some folks. Then they go to the Quest Board. (There is literally, in fiction, a board in the center of town with quests on it.) They chose from the three available quests. Once they’ve done two of them (at least), they unlock another set of three possible quests. Along the way the get optional, non-quest board quests that they can do or not. Eventually they complete enough quests and trigger a confrontation with the Dragon, the big bad of the adventure. They fight and win or lose, and save the village. Or not. Then the scenario is over, and the PCs and GM decide what to do next.

Once the PCs chose a quest, they go to a location based dungeon/adventure site. At those sites they have goals they need to achieve (like “Save the alchemist who makes our village healing potions”) if the want to succeed at the quest. They can abandon them if they’re too difficult. (It’s a bit unclear what happens if they abandon too many quests to level up and eventually fight the dragon. It’s clear the game assumes they’ll complete at least two of the three from each set, which does make it a bit railroady.)

So really, it’s a simple path adventure: Give a big obvious hook for heroes, give them a choice of three quests at a time and let them know they need to chose at least two from each set to complete, give them a couple of optional quests, fight a dragon. In each quest you go to a dungeon map and explore, fight, and negotiate your way through. Hopefully not dying.

2 Appreciations

I’m confused. How can you have a flowchart mapped out like that, and not have to use control techniques to force the players into those specific choices? What if a fight is lost at any point? What if, god forbid, the players apply their creativity—how do you reorient the situation?

Did you ever have to reorient because of something a player said?

1 Appreciation

That’s the railroad part. You get to chose from three quests, but you will chose from those three quests. This isn’t the kind of game where you say “instead we’ll go to the next town over and recruit their militia.” (Like, say, the Stars Without Number game I’d mentioned above.) It’s a game where you say “you chose between these three paths – which you do, in which order, and if you are able to complete them or have to abandon them.”

The control technique is purely open and transparent. You chose quests from the quest board. You don’t not chose quests from the quest board. It’s a game conceit, but perfectly functional at doing a “heroes get quests and complete them” D&D style game. (If you know the old lingo, it’s participationism vs illusionism.)

Inside the quests, players (usually) can apply their creativity. Once they’re on the dungeon map, they chose how they explore (or not), who they talk to (or not), who they fight (or not). And their tactics and the dice decide if they’re successful or not. If they lose a fight, they lose a fight. They may or may not still be able to complete the quest. They may or may not be one or all dead. If they’re dead, player makes a new character who shows up to also be a hero and save the village.

The thing that didn’t happen, but that I could see being a problem for this setup, is if the players fail at two or three of the three quests. There is no provision in the game (that I can remember) for what to do if they just fuck it all up. The game does assume that they’ll succeed at at least some of the quests. Eventually. Maybe after all the original heroes have died.

There was one funny moment where they thought about killing the mayor of the town for being a coward. But I didn’t have to do anything to stop them, as they remembered that their Paladin was sworn to defend the town and couldn’t, by oath, murder him. Had they gone ahead with that I might have had to adapt or to tell them to stick to the path. But it didn’t come up, so I didn’t have to make the judgement call.

As for player creativity: I never had to reorient at a scenario level. The players accepted that they needed to take quests and save the village. I’d told them straight up before we started playing that was how the game worked, and so they played the way the game worked. In each of the quests I frequently had to figure out how to deal with the zany shit they came up with. Using spells in weird ways, trying to negotiate with manticores, bribing the dwarves who were bribing them using the dwarves own gold… all fun stuff.

So, maybe the easiest way to say it is that in this style of play the place where primary PC creativity and agency manifests is at the tactical level, while the strategic level is pretty set.

2 Appreciations

3 posts were split to a new topic: Inappropriate content from “Running D&D5 for Youngsters”

Yeah, whether for better or for worse, this is the territory that’s pretty well set out by 5e and published modules. So you’re doing what’s on the box. I can see how it might be a good fit for a bunch of kids in the family.

Amusing to me that the mechanics (e.g. balanced encounters) and play expectations of 5e are so set at this point that they don’t even consider the possibility of the players failing to achieve two out of three quests!

It doesn’t sound like a game that’s very open to emergent outcomes.

Does that make you feel a bit weird at all? Like, do you feel an urge to tell these kids “it doesn’t have to be this way!”, or are you making plans to run InSpectres next, or are you loving how well this fits these particular social circumstances?

Have there been any particular difficult or challenging moments for you in this sense? How did they turn out?

2 Appreciations